Author Topic: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale  (Read 64841 times)

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Offline Sectionhand

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #220 on: June 27, 2012, 01:03:04 PM »
It hasn't been "insurance" for a long time.

Jason Lewis was talkng about this just last night.

There certainly are insurance companies which offer coverage for pre-existing conditions ... but you'll pay a hefty premium for it ... in most cases more than it's worth .

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #221 on: June 27, 2012, 01:35:17 PM »
It hasn't been "insurance" for a long time.

Jason Lewis was talkng about this just last night.

There certainly are insurance companies which offer coverage for pre-existing conditions ... but you'll pay a hefty premium for it ... in most cases more than it's worth .

Sure, because typically your employer will either  self insure or pay those premiums? Why? FDR. Of course. He imposed wage controls during WWII  that induced employers to offer other perks to attract employees: one of those was Health Insurance, and that is how it became  a standard offering, and now, of course , a "Right" provided by the enslavement of others.  Before then,  you <MIGHT> have had a catastrophic plan  but more than likely you did what you could, made deals with doctors, or simply didn't get treated. Of course, back then people knew and accepted there were no guarantees in life.   

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #222 on: June 27, 2012, 08:20:23 PM »
I don't know about anyone else but I'll not be getting much sleep tonight. For tomorrow we shall learn if we still have a republic. The stakes are huge and the circumstances dire. And based on recent events, the outcome extremely iffy. If we can be compelled by the federal government to involuntarily purchase a product for no god-damned good reason and fined or imprisoned for disobedience then we are subjects not citizens of this once-great nation and can be forced to do anything. Anything means anything and the law means nothing. And I withdraw my consent to be governed.

While I won't be deterred in I am the only one who stands in defiance I desperately hope that millions of us stand together and tell them "no". Consider this my manifesto - Take my liberty away from me and I will go to my grave fighting you. I will do everything within my power to derail this Øbomination.

Pray for our country.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #223 on: June 27, 2012, 10:11:12 PM »
I don't know about anyone else but I'll not be getting much sleep tonight. For tomorrow we shall learn if we still have a republic. The stakes are huge and the circumstances dire. And based on recent events, the outcome extremely iffy. If we can be compelled by the federal government to involuntarily purchase a product for no god-damned good reason and fined or imprisoned for disobedience then we are subjects not citizens of this once-great nation and can be forced to do anything. Anything means anything and the law means nothing. And I withdraw my consent to be governed.

While I won't be deterred in I am the only one who stands in defiance I desperately hope that millions of us stand together and tell them "no". Consider this my manifesto - Take my liberty away from me and I will go to my grave fighting you. I will do everything within my power to derail this Øbomination.

Pray for our country.

I am there with you. I won't be sleeping. I will not submit Nice to know there will at least one more prepared to deal back what they are dealing out. Liberty or Death.


Offline Glock32

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #224 on: June 27, 2012, 11:21:46 PM »
I was just about to come here and post the same sentiment, I am very apprehensive.  I just have bad feeling they're going to uphold it entirely.  I hope I am wrong.  But it's really as if the three branches of government are no longer checking and balancing each other, no they're in collusion with each other for the singular goal of always expanding the size and scope of government. Any institution will eventually become more concerned with its "institutionality" than with its original mission, and I think that explains much of the hubris that we have allowed to grow in DC.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #225 on: June 28, 2012, 01:06:02 AM »
Should have live coverage of the decisions here...

http://www.scotusblog.com/

BTW...if it is not overturned, for me, it isn't the end or anything. It is merely another thing to go to war over...another thing to fight the good fight about.

We are meant to struggle.

There are, in this life, brief respites from the struggle but those are anomalies rather than the norm. This is an imperfect world and we are its imperfect inhabitants.

We are a paradox of sorts. We represent the best and the worst and these things which are constantly at odds with each other. There are no perfect people. Every time we lift someone up onto a pedestal (most recently Tim Tebow as an example) it is only a matter of time before they inevitably fail in one way or another and those who put their faith in an imperfect human being are crushed...again.

So we have those on the left with all of their smug and humanist piety in opposition to those on the right with our morality, our principles and our unwavering dedication to the rule of law as set forth in our Constitution. We know we are right and we are almost always able to win a fair argument on any given subject or controversy. But the left believes just as strongly (if also illogically and irrationally) that they are right, too.

And hence, the struggle. It never ends. (and the political class that benefits from these differences feeds it...it's what they do)

And thus, we must remain vigilant and steadfast. We must overcome everything including our own discouragement and the inevitable setbacks. The left will never stop. They will keep fighting, keep bringing the fight from some new angle...

The impending decision, as historical and momentous as it is and regardless of whether we win or lose, is just another battle in a fight which we are doomed to continue forever.

So buck up, campers. You will continue to be needed. Stand fast.

In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #226 on: June 28, 2012, 01:58:45 AM »

BTW...if it is not overturned, for me, it isn't the end or anything. It is merely another thing to go to war over...another thing to fight the good fight about.


I don't think any of us is talking about quitting. We are admitting to ourselves that if this law is allowed to stand, under any pretext,  the checks and balances of the system have been entirely destroyed.  Health Care is a "Unique" market because everyone needs health care? Because we have a law enslaving doctors to provide care for free?  How about Food? Clean Water? Internet Service? Sanitation?  Everyone needs those. All we need is a law requiring those who work in those professions to provide heir services for free as well, and then those are unique markets as well.  No matter what line is drawn, it will give complete power to the Fed to do anything, and any limits or pretext that there are limits will be destroyed.

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[blockquote]“Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”

  “A Republic, if you can keep it.”[/blockquote]

If this vote stands we have failed to keep our republic,  and the checks and balances will have failed to such a degree that the system cannot be fixed from within. The entire history of mankind and certainly of the Roman Republic shows us how this will end.  A Monetary catastrophe, a revolt, a revolution - the unpredictable and potentially disastrous  courses we all fear-- will be the only roads left to us. Its either that or sit down and wait out the new dark ages in some remote corner of the world.

Electing Romney isn't a solution. Even if Obamacare is repealed, he is already worrying out loud about not depriving people who currently have coverage via the law.  The bribe for those souls  was offered and accepted, and Romney doesn't have the guts to tell people to pay their own way. Repeal at that stage is but a reprieve, and a temporary one. If the court can find this acceptable they have abandoned all pretense that they are guided via the consent of the people, and they will continue to act in that manner, until the liberals get a change to try again.  

We can't live with the liberals, in competition or anything else , anymore than the Romans could live with Barbarians inside the city gates.

Quote
     
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”-John Adams

They will not follow the laws. They Crave the rule of men, and believe might makes right. They use our government and our obedience to it, as a weapon against us. They are Evil. When this finally comes to blows , it will be us or them. We are incompatible, and they are hell bent on eradicating us - through indoctrination, through attrition, through punishment and persecution, and finally via the ovens. It is what they do. . We will only survive if we respond in kind.






Offline Pandora

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #227 on: June 28, 2012, 02:05:31 AM »
I'm waiting, calmly.

If it passes, I'll know what to do.

If it doesn't, I'll also know what to do.

It's a fight, either way, because, as you say, Romney doesn't have the balls to tell the free-riders it's time to pay, walk or sit where they are and die.

But we'll know exactly where we stand, without a doubt.
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Offline Predator Don

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #228 on: June 28, 2012, 07:55:06 AM »
Frankly, this republic has fallen.....no matter what whe ruling. The very fact we are anxiously awaiting what should be a slam dunk decision is proof.


I'm in the process is writing my own response. I will write a response no matter what the outcome, the subject matter the unfettered power of a govt which can force you into anything or a response to the fragile nature of our republic because there was question whether this abomination is constitutional. I hope to have it published in our small local paper......even if I pay for the ad myself.

Hopefully, it will be therapeutic for me...... Maybe it will wake up one other person. I'm sure there will be op eds galore in the national scene, no matter the ruling, but to win this battle, our message must be delivered to the places people live their lives.....to wake them up.
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Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #229 on: June 28, 2012, 08:12:43 AM »
I tend to think that they will cut the baby in half.

The Republic has been gone for some time.
Whether Ocare stands or falls.
Liberty is just a distant memory in a few of our minds.

Each new law takes more of our Freedom.
Most applaud them.
The masses are ignorant and lazy.
They have been dumbed down by the educational system or bought off by handouts.

Endless wars, bolder and bolder intrusions on our persons and privacy.

And for leaders of the opposition we have Romney, Boehner and McConnell.

There's not a pair of balls among the three of them.

There is no checks or balances.

Patriots must do their duty.
Fight the tyranny
But, I suspect these Patriots will be like those who defended the Alamo.
Certain death with no hope of reinforcements.

But there is no Sam Houston that is waiting for the time to catch the enemy unawares



« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 08:20:41 AM by AmericanPatriot »

Offline BMG

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #230 on: June 28, 2012, 08:41:26 AM »
Frankly, this republic has fallen.....no matter what whe ruling. The very fact we are anxiously awaiting what should be a slam dunk decision is proof.


I'm in the process is writing my own response. I will write a response no matter what the outcome, the subject matter the unfettered power of a govt which can force you into anything or a response to the fragile nature of our republic because there was question whether this abomination is constitutional. I hope to have it published in our small local paper......even if I pay for the ad myself.

Hopefully, it will be therapeutic for me...... Maybe it will wake up one other person. I'm sure there will be op eds galore in the national scene, no matter the ruling, but to win this battle, our message must be delivered to the places people live their lives.....to wake them up.

Your opinion PD, mirrors my own.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #231 on: June 28, 2012, 08:43:08 AM »
Not long now.

Of course, there are the minor decisions which will certainly be released first.

What incredible hype.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline trapeze

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #232 on: June 28, 2012, 08:44:37 AM »
I have FNC on and, as expected, there is a circus/zoo-like atmosphere in front of the court. Everyone with a cause is out in force with a sign.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline trapeze

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #233 on: June 28, 2012, 08:52:06 AM »
Curiously, on MSNBC they are ignoring the SCOTUS event and are discussing presidential campaign strategy.

Perhaps that will change. I have it recording in case it's overturned so that I can watch the long sad faces.

UPDATE: the Chuck Todd show is ending and another one is getting ready to start so presumably they will be covering the ruling. But this is not a network that is excited about the ruling.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 08:58:10 AM by trapeze »
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline BMG

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #234 on: June 28, 2012, 08:57:25 AM »
Curiously, on MSNBC they are ignoring the SCOTUS event and are discussing presidential campaign strategy.

Perhaps that will change. I have it recording in case it's overturned so that I can watch the long sad faces.

Trap! You are an exceptionally bad man. Bad and evil! But in a delightfully, good way!  ::thumbsup::
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
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"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #235 on: June 28, 2012, 08:59:53 AM »
Frankly, this republic has fallen.....no matter what whe ruling. The very fact we are anxiously awaiting what should be a slam dunk decision is proof.

Like Rome, its a long slow fall.
It was falling when Fed power was expanded as a result of the Civil War
It was falling when Senators become popularly elected
It was falling when FDR pushes through his reforms and "interstate" commerce was deemed to apply to subsistence farming.

However, this, I think, is the moment where we will have fallen past the point of no return. Where the system can no longer be corrected from within.  Which is why we are looking at each other and saying Liberty or Death, and expecting to die in our homes.

If this stands the world will become toxic to me. I love my family, but I am the sort that will not be able to experience real joy with them - because I will be unable to forget that I and they are slaves, and that their "Freedom" is only what is left over after our masters have made their demands. I will go on because I have responsibilities, but my only chance for joy  in my life  will have been extinguished. I am not the sort of person who can be happy as a slave.  

Offline trapeze

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #236 on: June 28, 2012, 09:04:09 AM »
Oh yeah, MSNBC has Chris Mathews and Andrea Mitchell up on a panel. Mathews is looking especially unenthusiastic...very little hyperventilating. Andrea Mitchel is putting on a brave face.

Matthews is making a case that O'Bongo, if defeated on O'BongoCare, should not "take it" and should fight back against the SCOTUS. Makes you wonder what he thinks O'Bongo could do in a legal sense...arrest the justices?
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline trapeze

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #237 on: June 28, 2012, 09:08:37 AM »
FNC is reporting that the mandate is ruled unconstitutional.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline trapeze

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #238 on: June 28, 2012, 09:10:24 AM »
Now they are saying that the mandate may be surviving as a "tax."
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline trapeze

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #239 on: June 28, 2012, 09:16:29 AM »
That the mandate is going to be characterized as a tax is going to be a pretty big millstone around the necks of the Democrats who claimed that it was not a tax.

So...we are looking at a win/lose for the Democrats. They win the O'BongoCare debate and almost certainly lose the war.

Oh, and look for O'Bongo to do a victory dance. He won't be able to help it.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.