Author Topic: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting  (Read 12543 times)

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Offline Glock32

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2012, 05:49:57 PM »
No vest for $107 would meet my definition of "bullet resistant".  The push for banning "high capacity clips (sic)" is sure to come again.  I wouldn't be surprised to see an effort to outlaw mail order of ammunition either.  There's no way they will let this event pass by without an attempt to make political capital from it.

What's with all the talk about "body armor", then; because he had on "tactical" gear?  I cut some slack for the people on site, but not for the rest of the chatterers.  They're using the "body armor" meme as a rationale for why even an armed person "couldn't have done anything".  More crap.

I'm equally as sure the gun-rights groups all over this country are ready for it and are prepared to push back.

Ann Barnhardt has a lengthy post on this.  She makes the point that because we are all fallen sinners on this Earthly world, evil will always exist, and that those who agitate for more power in order to allegedly eliminate evil are, in fact, the evil ones themselves -- because they arrogate to themselves a presumed ability to create a Heaven right here. That really is secularism in a nutshell if you think about it.

I know in my own case, I am weary of having to do political and ideological battle every time evil rears its head, such as in Colorado early Friday. If we could have news accounts of every episode where a person used a gun to defend themselves, it would be obvious how lopsided firearm use really is. But we don't, and it's hardly coincidence. Today I went target shooting on private land in the same place I go almost every weekend, and for the first time ever the police came out because someone had complained. The officer was perfectly cool about it, to his credit. But I can't help but think the media has accomplished its goal of setting the armies of busybodies in motion, and that this person -- whoever she was -- probably would not have called to complain about gunshots prior to Friday.
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Online Pandora

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2012, 06:08:33 PM »

He can only face one direction at a time.


True, and despite the gas mask, I figure he wasn't able to see any more clearly than anyone else there.

Sidebar:  a short time after Columbine, a man with his head screwed on straight began offering seminars for school kids whereby he instructed them in alternatives to hiding under their desks, kissing their asses goodbye, in the event they should find themselves under siege.  He advised the kids to begin throwing anything and everything at the assailant in order to distract him enough to either grab away the gun or knock him on his ass -- and then grab the gun if they could -- or to provide any opportunity for some to run away to safety.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2012, 07:21:33 PM »
No vest for $107 would meet my definition of "bullet resistant".  The push for banning "high capacity clips (sic)" is sure to come again.  I wouldn't be surprised to see an effort to outlaw mail order of ammunition either.  There's no way they will let this event pass by without an attempt to make political capital from it.

What's with all the talk about "body armor", then; because he had on "tactical" gear?  I cut some slack for the people on site, but not for the rest of the chatterers.  They're using the "body armor" meme as a rationale for why even an armed person "couldn't have done anything".  More crap.

I'm equally as sure the gun-rights groups all over this country are ready for it and are prepared to push back.

My understanding is that "tactical" clothing refers to having pockets and pouches to hold gear, specifically magazines but also flashlights and other items.

I have no idea why anyone would refer to clothing of any type as "ballistic" unless it can be propelled out of a rifled barrel.

« Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 07:28:07 PM by trapeze »
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline trapeze

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2012, 07:26:11 PM »

Can't find that sight itemizing the weapons.
Haven't found out what the old man who
foiled the shooters in FL was packing either.

Chris Wallace and others mentioned that many
have suggested if there had been a CC carrier
in the theater wouldn't it have been stopped.
They neglected to show the FL vid.

I can't remember where I read it but I seem to recall that the old guy was packing a .380

That would seem to explain how he hit them without killing them. A .45 or a .40 impact would most likely have ended with them bleeding out rather quickly.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline trapeze

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2012, 07:44:49 PM »

Did you hear?  He accumulated his arsenal by mail order.
That's the problem, if he hadn't been able to buy that
stuff through the mail this would have never happened.



Okay, I recognize the sarcasm. I don't get it either (I get your sarcasm). It's like some people have lost their minds and forgotten that mail order firearms have been against the law since the Kennedy assassination.

And yes, you can buy ammo through the mail. Big deal. With a small amount of knowledge you can purchase ingredients via mail or internet or whatever to concoct IEDs or methamphetamine or any number of dangerous  and illegal compounds and/or devices. Welcome to a semi-free (for now) society.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 09:54:32 PM by trapeze »
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2012, 07:46:22 PM »

Can't find that sight itemizing the weapons.
Haven't found out what the old man who
foiled the shooters in FL was packing either.

Chris Wallace and others mentioned that many
have suggested if there had been a CC carrier
in the theater wouldn't it have been stopped.
They neglected to show the FL vid.

I can't remember where I read it but I seem to recall that the old guy was packing a .380

That would seem to explain how he hit them without killing them. A .45 or a .40 impact would most likely have ended with them bleeding out rather quickly.

Maybe Fl dude was shooting FMJ not HP's and they missed anything vital.  Mfg's have gotten better performing HP's for .380 rounds, since it has risen to such popularity, thanks in large part to pocket pistols.  It's why I like my Bersa for summer carry, little bit longer barrel than pocket pistols and if you can get quality HP's you can put down what you have to, as long as you can fire off a double-tap or two.

Anyway, if law-abiding people with permits were in that theater, doesn't matter the caliber's they have, if even just a few got off shots this scumbag would be down and who knows how many people would have been spared.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Glock32

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2012, 08:33:53 PM »
Mark Steyn mentioned this when filling in for Rush on Friday, but there was a college shooting in Virginia prior to the VA Tech massacre, and not far away. It's the school shooting nobody has heard of because it ended so differently. A foreign student had some grievance about grades or something, and went and shot his professor in his office. When he tried to go "at large" with his grievances, two of the students (one of whom a police officer from NC) went and confronted him with guns. That incident ended there with one unfortunate casualty, but no more.

On another point, that I think the Right has ceded when it should not have, and that is that the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is not to protect hunting arms. It's not even necessarily to protect self-defense arms. It exists to protect the right of the citizenry to, if necessary, wage war against the State. Writing the Bill of Rights in the immediate aftermath of struggle against the British Empire, what other purpose could have possibly been in mind? Every time I hear the leftists, or even too often the Fudds on the Right, argue that the Founders could never have foreseen the technological increase in personal firepower I think of this. True enough, I imagine the Founders could not foresee many of the changes in weapon technology. I am equally convinced that they would consider it irrelevant. The real purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to create a major headache for would-be tyrants, whether foreign or domestic.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2012, 10:04:07 PM »
Anyway, if law-abiding people with permits were in that theater, doesn't matter the caliber's they have, if even just a few got off shots this scumbag would be down and who knows how many people would have been spared.

Now this is yet another thing I have heard and not been able to confirm so take it for what it's worth:

The theater and mall both had a "no weapons" policy. So...private property and all I guess this is supposed to mean that they have the right to tell their patrons to either disarm or seek entertainment elsewhere.

Now...if that's true (and I have no idea if it is or not) then the disarmed patrons should be able to expect a reasonable amount of security during said entertainment. Obviously this did not occur. Enter liability lawyers.

Again, don't know if these things are true or not.

And, yeah, probably FMJ on the .380

I can't imagine using FMJ for anything but practice. Hollow points are for keeps. I have one whole magazine of .40SW full of Black Talons. Can't get those anymore thanks to left wing BS. Not that it matters...Ranger SXT are just about the exact same thing.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 10:13:02 PM by trapeze »
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Glock32

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2012, 10:30:18 PM »
In .380 I have started carrying the Hornady Critical Defense.  They are hollow points with a polymer compound inserted into the cavity to prevent it clogging with clothing, yet still transmits hydraulic force to cause expansion. In tests I've seen, they do about as well as can be expected from a .380.
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Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2012, 11:12:14 PM »
So, besides the helmet, what else of what he was wearing was "bullet resistant"?

I have a vest like his. It's not bullet resistant - no more than a kids book bag might be. It isn't meant to be. It's a tactical vest which is a fancy way of saying it's a vest with specialized compartments for carrying gear. Probably the only bullet resistant aspect of it was if he had a cell phone in one of the pockets.

Just like the "assault weapon" scary rhetoric it is meant to elicit a predetermined (negative) response.

Where it gets disappointing is when you get fence-sitters who buckle under to the weight and volume of the nonsense.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2012, 07:03:37 AM »
Mark Steyn mentioned this when filling in for Rush on Friday, but there was a college shooting in Virginia prior to the VA Tech massacre, and not far away. It's the school shooting nobody has heard of because it ended so differently. A foreign student had some grievance about grades or something, and went and shot his professor in his office. When he tried to go "at large" with his grievances, two of the students (one of whom a police officer from NC) went and confronted him with guns. That incident ended there with one unfortunate casualty, but no more.

On another point, that I think the Right has ceded when it should not have, and that is that the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is not to protect hunting arms. It's not even necessarily to protect self-defense arms. It exists to protect the right of the citizenry to, if necessary, wage war against the State. Writing the Bill of Rights in the immediate aftermath of struggle against the British Empire, what other purpose could have possibly been in mind? Every time I hear the leftists, or even too often the Fudds on the Right, argue that the Founders could never have foreseen the technological increase in personal firepower I think of this. True enough, I imagine the Founders could not foresee many of the changes in weapon technology. I am equally convinced that they would consider it irrelevant. The real purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to create a major headache for would-be tyrants, whether foreign or domestic.

Amen!   ::thumbsup::   ::thumbsup::   ::thumbsup::   ::thumbsup::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2012, 07:07:52 AM »
Anyway, if law-abiding people with permits were in that theater, doesn't matter the caliber's they have, if even just a few got off shots this scumbag would be down and who knows how many people would have been spared.

Now this is yet another thing I have heard and not been able to confirm so take it for what it's worth:

The theater and mall both had a "no weapons" policy. So...private property and all I guess this is supposed to mean that they have the right to tell their patrons to either disarm or seek entertainment elsewhere.

Now...if that's true (and I have no idea if it is or not) then the disarmed patrons should be able to expect a reasonable amount of security during said entertainment. Obviously this did not occur. Enter liability lawyers.

Again, don't know if these things are true or not.

And, yeah, probably FMJ on the .380

I can't imagine using FMJ for anything but practice. Hollow points are for keeps. I have one whole magazine of .40SW full of Black Talons. Can't get those anymore thanks to left wing BS. Not that it matters...Ranger SXT are just about the exact same thing.

If a "no weapons" policy that is unenforced, then they not only have a severe liability issue (civil cases for sure) but then the people of CO have to know that if it is not enforced and they have a permit there is really no reason not to carry in the theater, if enforced they would merely have to be asked to leave, and they could re-enter if they so desire sans weapon.  If not asked (no "printing" visible to warrant inquiry) they could have carried and responded.  Not sure about their liability issues then, but better jailed and alive than buried in the ground.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2012, 07:08:32 AM »
In .380 I have started carrying the Hornady Critical Defense.  They are hollow points with a polymer compound inserted into the cavity to prevent it clogging with clothing, yet still transmits hydraulic force to cause expansion. In tests I've seen, they do about as well as can be expected from a .380.

I am partial to Hornady as well, pay a little more but the quality and performance is worth it.   ::thumbsup::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2012, 07:12:30 AM »
So, besides the helmet, what else of what he was wearing was "bullet resistant"?

I have a vest like his. It's not bullet resistant - no more than a kids book bag might be. It isn't meant to be. It's a tactical vest which is a fancy way of saying it's a vest with specialized compartments for carrying gear. Probably the only bullet resistant aspect of it was if he had a cell phone in one of the pockets.

Just like the "assault weapon" scary rhetoric it is meant to elicit a predetermined (negative) response.

Where it gets disappointing is when you get fence-sitters who buckle under to the weight and volume of the nonsense.

Yup, it's all about the scare factor with gun-grabbing progressives...an armed populace is much more problematic for them to enslave, thus they will never ever give up.

Which is why crap like Agenda 21 is coming up more often.  Progressives always like to create more cover for themselves, they think it conceals their true intent.  Only a complete moron can fail to see their true intent, we liberty-minded know better, as do the conspirators themselves.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline warpmine

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2012, 07:42:16 AM »
Investigator Bill Warren says Holmes is part of Black Block faction of OWS

http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/

To much to transfer so use the link. Take it with the usual grain of salt as we know for sure the left won't print the truth unless it could help their cause. Remember all those false reports of McVeigh being a Christian.
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Offline Predator Don

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2012, 08:12:56 AM »
Investigator Bill Warren says Holmes is part of Black Block faction of OWS

http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/

To much to transfer so use the link. Take it with the usual grain of salt as we know for sure the left won't print the truth unless it could help their cause. Remember all those false reports of McVeigh being a Christian.


Figured he would be closer to OWS than the Tea Party. Time to study the OWS footage and see if this guy was caught on film.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2012, 09:28:20 AM »
Denver had one of the nastier OWS demonstrations that didn't make national news.

But there may be quite a bit of non-MFM media to go through...stuff posted on youtube and other places.

The guy is 6'3" tall. He will stand out in a crowd.

In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2012, 09:38:17 AM »
So, besides the helmet, what else of what he was wearing was "bullet resistant"?

I have a vest like his. It's not bullet resistant - no more than a kids book bag might be. It isn't meant to be. It's a tactical vest which is a fancy way of saying it's a vest with specialized compartments for carrying gear. Probably the only bullet resistant aspect of it was if he had a cell phone in one of the pockets.

Just like the "assault weapon" scary rhetoric it is meant to elicit a predetermined (negative) response.

Where it gets disappointing is when you get fence-sitters who buckle under to the weight and volume of the nonsense.





H/T rayra
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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2012, 09:59:43 AM »
To Glock's earlier points about defensive use of firearms getting no attention...

Two Aurora Shootings: One Widely Known; the Other Ignored

On April 22 of this year a convicted felon, just out of jail, went to an Aurora, Colorado, church and shot and killed a member of the congregation before being killed himself by a congregant carrying a gun.

On July 20, following the horrific shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, President Obama offered his condolences to the victims of the more recent tragedy. "Our time here [on Earth] is limited and it is precious," the president said. "And what matters at the end of the day is not the small things, it’s not the trivial things which so often consume us and our daily lives. It’s about how we choose to treat one another and how we love one another."

Obama then led his supporters at a rally in Fort Myers, Florida, in a moment of silent prayer “for all the victims of less publicized acts of violence that plague our communities every single day.”

No doubt the president was unaware of the other, less-publicized lethal shooting that took place earlier in the year in Aurora, when there was only one victim, thanks to the quick thinking and action of a responsibly armed individual. Aurora police spokesman Frank Fania asked rhetorically: “Who knows what would’ve happened if the [church member, an off-duty police officer] had not been there? It certainly could have been a lot worse.”

How much worse? Could the killing spree have been as bad as the shooting at the movie theater, where a dozen victims lost their lives? Thankfully, we'll never know....

(More at link...)
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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Police: 14 dead in Colorado theater shooting
« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2012, 10:10:40 AM »
They just refuse to believe that the only effective countermeasure against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. The hubris of their humanistic ideology is such that they think they can eliminate evil simply by having all power vested in them.

Recently, I asked my daughter's close friend what her very liberal, gun-hating aunt and uncle would say about the 14 year old who shot the intruder and protected his siblings a few weeks ago. She said that wouldn't change their minds.  And if you said the intruder could have killed them all her aunt and uncle would say that's very sad but that's the way it goes sometimes. That you have accept that as the price to get rid of guns and protect everyone. 

I can't even imagine living in a world of denial like that.

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