Topic: flowers have a right to live

[IronDioPriest]

I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with improving messaging, strategizing, etc. In fact I think it's absolutely necessary.

I just don't think that the lack of messaging provides an excuse for those who fail to seek out, or, as Pan says, willfully ignore readily available information.

Personal responsibility is a basic principle. Either a person lives by it or they don't. It chafes, that we must "message" to those who don't live by it.

[Weisshaupt]

And if you're suggesting free stuff as an enticement, fuggedabouddit; if we have to go that way, we've lost.

Look at how many seniors are willing to buy into "Social Security is My Money" myth, when the Supreme court found it to be only a tax ( which is the same thing as saying "there is no contract, and the Government does not Owe you anything") If you have to offer bribes of other peoples money, then you have become the left. (and Satan laughs along with them) 

You cannot sell to those who are not buying.  Do you not get that?  You seem to think if we just ... -- um, lemme see we'll put this word here and that word there and rearrange this paragraph  -- get the words right in the right order, "they" will get it.  They. Won't.  They. Don't Want To.

Doll, you think we can still save this thing by talking.  We can't.  Some people just need to eat their pain in order to wise up.

We are back to Traps example of the Dwarfs in C.S. Lewis' The Last Battle.

Aslan raised his head and shook his mane. Instantly a glorious feast appeared on the Dwarfs’ knees: pies and tongues and pigeons and trifles and ices, and each Dwarf had a goblet of good wine in his right hand. But it wasn’t much use. They began eating and drinking greedily enough, but it was clear that they couldn’t taste it properly. They thought they were eating and drinking only the sort of things you might find in a Stable. One said he was trying to eat hay and another said he had got a bit of an old turnip and a third said he’d found a raw cabbage leaf. And they raised golden goblets of rich red wine to their lips and said, ‘Ugh! Fancy drinking dirty water out of a trough that a donkey’s been at! Never thought we’d come to this.’ But very soon every Dwarf began suspecting that every other Dwarf had found something nicer than he had, and they started grabbing and snatching, and went on to quarreling, till in a few minutes there was a free fight and all the good food was smeared on their faces and clothes or trodden under foot. But when at last they sat down to nurse their black eyes and their bleeding noses, they all said: ‘Well, at any rate, there’s no Humbug here. We haven’t let anyone take us in The Dwarfs are for the Dwarfs!’

‘You see,’ said Aslan. ‘ They will not let us help them. They have chosen cunning instead of belief. Their prison is only in their own minds, yet they are in that prison; and so afraid of being taken in that they can not be taken out.

And what is the left besides cunning?  They twist everything to mean what they want it to mean. Everything they do is designed to manipulate. Truth to them is anything that advances their agenda. The Dwarves are for the Dwarves! A feast of knowledge that lays before them becomes Donkey Shyt in their eyes. That is tragic when the people who mistakenly believe themselves to be in the stable have no power over those who do not suffer from that delusion. Its Barbaric when they do.

I spent over a decade looking for the Magic words, the right order, the phase that would set up a cognitive  dissonance so strong it would break their worldview and  set them free of the prison. Those words DO NOT EXIST. As Pan is saying, THEY DON'T WANT TO THINK. Perhaps they can't think - having it beaten out of them as a child. Perhaps beyond a certain age its just not a skill you can acquire. I lost all of my Childhood friends to this rot. My mother. My Father. My  Sister.   They decided that would rather believe in Totalitarian Statism ( IN the stable its seen as being "liberal", kind and just) than have a relationship with her own Son or Grandchildren.  My Mother couldn't even get to the point where she  would admit a discussion or an argument was required. She has a right to her own facts ( in the stable, facts are just opinions) and if her worldview justified pointing government  guns at her own son she felt ( and feel is all they really do) that her position didn't NEED explaining. They. Will. Not. SEE. and they will keep pushing until the war starts-  (in the stable its not a war, its voluntary nudging)  The Left is for the Left. Heil Hitler.

[Weisshaupt]

I think I get what whimsical is saying. It's basically the same thing Rush Limbaugh said the day after the 2012 election: you can't beat Santa Claus. We start off with a deficit because we're the side that is not promising "free" this or that, we're the side that is not telling people that their sins and character flaws are all fine and dandy.

It's sort of like when you have one parent who is trying to imbue a sense of responsibility into the kids, and the other parent saying "Cake and ice cream for dinner again!", well, the responsible parent is at an automatic disadvantage.

Mal: They let us come, and they let us go. What kind of ident card gets us that kind of reception and send-off?
Book: I am a Shepherd. Folks like a man of God.
Mal: No, they don't. Men of God make everyone feel guilty and judged.

[Pandora]

And if you're suggesting free stuff as an enticement, fuggedabouddit; if we have to go that way, we've lost.

Look at how many seniors are willing to buy into "Social Security is My Money" myth, when the Supreme court found it to be only a tax ( which is the same thing as saying "there is no contract, and the Government does not Owe you anything") If you have to offer bribes of other peoples money, then you have become the left. (and Satan laughs along with them) 

You cannot sell to those who are not buying.  Do you not get that?  You seem to think if we just ... -- um, lemme see we'll put this word here and that word there and rearrange this paragraph  -- get the words right in the right order, "they" will get it.  They. Won't.  They. Don't Want To.

Doll, you think we can still save this thing by talking.  We can't.  Some people just need to eat their pain in order to wise up.

We are back to Traps example of the Dwarfs in C.S. Lewis' The Last Battle.

Aslan raised his head and shook his mane. Instantly a glorious feast appeared on the Dwarfs’ knees: pies and tongues and pigeons and trifles and ices, and each Dwarf had a goblet of good wine in his right hand. But it wasn’t much use. They began eating and drinking greedily enough, but it was clear that they couldn’t taste it properly. They thought they were eating and drinking only the sort of things you might find in a Stable. One said he was trying to eat hay and another said he had got a bit of an old turnip and a third said he’d found a raw cabbage leaf. And they raised golden goblets of rich red wine to their lips and said, ‘Ugh! Fancy drinking dirty water out of a trough that a donkey’s been at! Never thought we’d come to this.’ But very soon every Dwarf began suspecting that every other Dwarf had found something nicer than he had, and they started grabbing and snatching, and went on to quarreling, till in a few minutes there was a free fight and all the good food was smeared on their faces and clothes or trodden under foot. But when at last they sat down to nurse their black eyes and their bleeding noses, they all said: ‘Well, at any rate, there’s no Humbug here. We haven’t let anyone take us in The Dwarfs are for the Dwarfs!’

‘You see,’ said Aslan. ‘ They will not let us help them. They have chosen cunning instead of belief. Their prison is only in their own minds, yet they are in that prison; and so afraid of being taken in that they can not be taken out.

And what is the left besides cunning?  They twist everything to mean what they want it to mean. Everything they do is designed to manipulate. Truth to them is anything that advances their agenda. The Dwarves are for the Dwarves! A feast of knowledge that lays before them becomes Donkey Shyt in their eyes. That is tragic when the people who mistakenly believe themselves to be in the stable have no power over those who do not suffer from that delusion. Its Barbaric when they do.

I spent over a decade looking for the Magic words, the right order, the phase that would set up a cognitive  dissonance so strong it would break their worldview and  set them free of the prison. Those words DO NOT EXIST. As Pan is saying, THEY DON'T WANT TO THINK. Perhaps they can't think - having it beaten out of them as a child. Perhaps beyond a certain age its just not a skill you can acquire. I lost all of my Childhood friends to this rot. My mother. My Father. My  Sister.   They decided that would rather believe in Totalitarian Statism ( IN the stable its seen as being "liberal", kind and just) than have a relationship with her own Son or Grandchildren.  My Mother couldn't even get to the point where she  would admit a discussion or an argument was required. She has a right to her own facts ( in the stable, facts are just opinions) and if her worldview justified pointing government  guns at her own son she felt ( and feel is all they really do) that her position didn't NEED explaining. They. Will. Not. SEE. and they will keep pushing until the war starts-  (in the stable its not a war, its voluntary nudging)  The Left is for the Left. Heil Hitler.

It is to weep.  I swear, it is to weep.

[trapeze]

I get mailings from aarp all the time and the go directly to the circular file or delete button. I wouldn't trust them farther than I could throw them.

Then join AMAC. The benefits are close to the same as AARP and getting better each year. AMAC lobbies congress for conservative issues. Ignoring AARP is a (necessary) negative thing to do...joining AMAC is a positive thing to do.

the boomers were probably initially correct to trust what the government told them, they had followed them successfully through WWII...

Okay, now this is me just being a pain in the ass about details. Boomers, by definition, weren't born until WW2 was over...war over, make babies...and the last of the boomers were born in 1964. Sorry...can't help myself.

I think I get what whimsical is saying. It's basically the same thing Rush Limbaugh said the day after the 2012 election: you can't beat Santa Claus. We start off with a deficit because we're the side that is not promising "free" this or that, we're the side that is not telling people that their sins and character flaws are all fine and dandy.

And that's why it is my opinion that there really isn't anything that we can do. We can talk. We can persuade. But it's really pointless now.

Until the gravy train runs off the tracks (and that's coming because, math) and the takers are left with nothing because they aren't any good at doing anything even vaguely useful or productive. It will be bad when this happens. I am expecting a total societal collapse. And I am expecting that there will be a certain amount of lives lost. How many I do not know but it will be significant. I'm thinking that we are coming up on something like the Great Depression except that no one (unprepared) will have good manners or respect for others. It will be bad.

It seems so obvious to me.

It's like in nature when a population exceeds the ability of its environment to provide. Lemmings and mass self extinction.

So...I think that the cure for this situation is inevitable. I believe that there will be a "correction" of a sort that we haven't seen in our lifetime.

But that's me.

[Glock32]

Agreed Trap. We're now in the politically unwinnable situation of trying to compete with Santa Claus, and you will simply never out-pander the Left, and even if we could that would only mean that we had become them. Why we managed to make it all the way to the 20th century before the citizenry "discovered that they could vote themselves generous gifts from the public purse" is down to many reasons, but chief among them would be moral degeneracy.

Whatever the reasons it got this way, the only thing now is to await the inevitable collapse -- because that which cannot continue....won't.

[RickZ]

IDP's talked to his mother, LV's communicated with hers.  I've gone into combat with my own on the issue of corporate greed so many times, it isn't even funny; she knows better than to even say the phrase anymore.

You cannot, simply cannot, feed -- spoon or otherwise -- those who refuse the food of knowledge.

My Mom's next to last election was 2004.  To be honest, I don't now what my Mom was politically though she was conservative in her life, but I suspect an old school Democrat; she was 7 when the market crashed in '29.  I had to plead and beg and cajole her, over many months, to vote for Bush in 2004 because she 'didn't like him'.  She didn't have a computer but relied on the Praetorian Guard national (not cable) and local news broadcasts and the local liberal rag for all her 'news'.  That is a serious problem with the elderly.  They just can't accept that the media is so far left, and lie about it, that Lenin is a right wing neo-con in comparison.  When it came to Owebama, I had to have no such arguments as she saw him for the liar he is.

But the elderly, especially elderly old school Democrats, cannot grasp that the party is now infested with communists, the very people my father spent the last of his 22 years in the Navy fighting.  (Just as Juan McShame could not grasp that the man he was running against for president in 2008 was of the very same ideology that tortured him all those years ago in Vietnam; he still doesn't get it.)  The media have made great hay out of camouflage and do not 'look' like the communists of old.  That is why to have any chance of restoring the Constitutional values of this Republic, media delenda est.  No one elects a Brian Williams or a Dan Rather, yet they have an insane amount of power to set the national debate on any topic they wish, with whatever slant they personally approve.

As for the young, they truly don't know any better.  Think about it.  A twenty-something was born around 1990.  By that time, the propaganda indoctrination in the schools was well entrenched, nay union contract guaranteed.  Critical thinking is no longer taught.  The only way to get through to these millennials is with the lesson of pain, be it financial and/or physical.  But the elderly, they are trapped in their own ignorance of the shifting political landscape and kept there by their belief in the truthfulness of the media, and the media are quite good at keeping up the charade.  We all know the media lies, but the more egregious lie is the lie of omission.  How do you disprove something that was never said?

[warpmine]

IDP's talked to his mother, LV's communicated with hers.  I've gone into combat with my own on the issue of corporate greed so many times, it isn't even funny; she knows better than to even say the phrase anymore.

You cannot, simply cannot, feed -- spoon or otherwise -- those who refuse the food of knowledge.

My Mom's next to last election was 2004.  To be honest, I don't now what my Mom was politically though she was conservative in her life, but I suspect an old school Democrat; she was 7 when the market crashed in '29.  I had to plead and beg and cajole her, over many months, to vote for Bush in 2004 because she 'didn't like him'.  She didn't have a computer but relied on the Praetorian Guard national (not cable) and local news broadcasts and the local liberal rag for all her 'news'.  That is a serious problem with the elderly.  They just can't accept that the media is so far left, and lie about it, that Lenin is a right wing neo-con in comparison.  When it came to Owebama, I had to have no such arguments as she saw him for the liar he is.

But the elderly, especially elderly old school Democrats, cannot grasp that the party is now infested with communists, the very people my father spent the last of his 22 years in the Navy fighting.  (Just as Juan McShame could not grasp that the man he was running against for president in 2008 was of the very same ideology that tortured him all those years ago in Vietnam; he still doesn't get it.)  The media have made great hay out of camouflage and do not 'look' like the communists of old.  That is why to have any chance of restoring the Constitutional values of this Republic, media delenda est.  No one elects a Brian Williams or a Dan Rather, yet they have an insane amount of power to set the national debate on any topic they wish, with whatever slant they personally approve.

As for the young, they truly don't know any better.  Think about it.  A twenty-something was born around 1990.  By that time, the propaganda indoctrination in the schools was well entrenched, nay union contract guaranteed.  Critical thinking is no longer taught.  The only way to get through to these millennials is with the lesson of pain, be it financial and/or physical.  But the elderly, they are trapped in their own ignorance of the shifting political landscape and kept there by their belief in the truthfulness of the media, and the media are quite good at keeping up the charade.  We all know the media lies, but the more egregious lie is the lie of omission.  How do you disprove something that was never said?

You've hit upon something my friend, the communist controlled media is the problem as they are the gate keepers of the information. The best way to kill their power will be to make them useless and for that you need infrastructure failure a.k.a. electrical grid damage. No electricity, no TV....no TV no ability to disseminate the lies. But what about the print media? They'll die as well, because you won't be able to push information through wire services asn they'll be damaged as well. Three decades of darkness and they(population) might be able to see once again.

[RickZ]

You've hit upon something my friend, the communist controlled media is the problem as they are the gate keepers of the information. The best way to kill their power will be to make them useless and for that you need infrastructure failure a.k.a. electrical grid damage. No electricity, no TV....no TV no ability to disseminate the lies. But what about the print media? They'll die as well, because you won't be able to push information through wire services asn they'll be damaged as well. Three decades of darkness and they(population) might be able to see once again.

I think print media is dying because of it's untimely irrelevance.  Back in the Dark Ages when I was in college (and disco was, uh, king), TIME and NEWSWEEK were major sources of news, even if a week or more old.  Now, the immediacy of the internet has pushed them and newspapers into irrelevancy.  Who wants to read a paper today with yesterday's news?  (We are spoiled by technology, but not all 'spoilage' is bad.)  I also think the cost of printing a paper is killing them, those costs being everything from union contracts to paper supply and printing machine maintenance/upgrades.

Another way "to kill [the media's] power" is simply to kill them.  A few examples would go a long way to helping the media have an attitude readjustment, if only from self-preservation.

I think what bothers me most is the fact that the media have all these Constitutional protections, yet cannot or will not do their jobs in a manner to benefit the public.  I also think Diane Frankenstein's new push to declare who is a journalist will make the media a more protected class than it already is, to the further detriment of the Republic.  The media get away with lies even after being caught by simply running a 'retraction', as if that will erase the story that is already out there.  They remind me of lawyers who try to get evidence entered into a trial against the instructions of the judge.  The jury is told to disregard the matter.  But how do you unring a bell?

When there is outright fraud, no one is held accountable in a criminal court.  Was Dan Rather ever arrested for fraudulently trying to throw the election in 2004?  No, of course not.  He was allowed to 'retire' and still will not publicly admit the TANG memos were forgeries.  What sanctions did Candy Crowley face for sticking her fat face into a presidential debate?  Praise from the media.  What about CNN having a reporter* fake a newscast during the Gulf War?  He was in a studio and acted like he was outside facing the threat of a gas attack?  Nothing as no one knew about it for years.  Then there was CNN paying Saddam for access, slanting the news in a pro-Saddam manner to keep that access.  Any sanctions?  No, just the token firing of Eason Jordan. 

But like I said, it is the lies of omission which are the most damaging.  A classic lie of omission was not reporting on Owebama's communist background.  AT ALL!  He was a 'moderate' (as if a commie can be a  moderate anything; a moderate commie is like a moderate muslim:  They both only exist in the land of unicorns).  And if you dared to bring up his communist associations (his grandfather, his mother, his father, his mentor FM Davis, et. al.), you were racist.  While Gingrich has more baggage than Louis Vuitton, he at least takes on the media, and which is why he is popular with conservatives.  It's also the reason the media seek to destroy him as he attacks and mocks their unbridled and unelected power.

*  Here it is in all it's fake glory.

CNN Fake Newscast Best Quality

[Libertas]

If the right/conservative cultural ethos is to persist as the guiding principles of this nation they must create a platform that relegates the more fanatic and outlying concepts of the left to the trash heap of cultural history where they belong.

I am afraid the only platform that will do that now is AR-15

Aye!

[Libertas]

I slaughtered a whole bunch of non-hallucinogenic weeds at the lake...   

 How do you sleep nights after a day of murder??

At least you slaughtered them outright, I deprived a section of lawn of sunlight by placing a tarpaulin on them for the broken up concrete patio. Good thing I don't travel out of the country much lest I be charged and tried in the Hague.

We grew a whole field of them to be slaughtered for my petty need to eat. But with the Flood, God beat me to it. What does God let bad things happen to good plants?

 

Yup, you got it...another reason for libiots to heap scorn upon the Almighty and any who dare believe in Him!

[Libertas]

Agreed Trap. We're now in the politically unwinnable situation of trying to compete with Santa Claus, and you will simply never out-pander the Left, and even if we could that would only mean that we had become them. Why we managed to make it all the way to the 20th century before the citizenry "discovered that they could vote themselves generous gifts from the public purse" is down to many reasons, but chief among them would be moral degeneracy.

Whatever the reasons it got this way, the only thing now is to await the inevitable collapse -- because that which cannot continue....won't.

Agreed.

And as Warp says above the generational indoctrination continues because of left-wing control of the entire MFM/Entertainment industry.

There is a benefit to collapse...the traditional power centers of the Left, the Democrat-Media Complex, will all be less useful than cow patties.

[LadyVirginia]

It's sort of like when you have one parent who is trying to imbue a sense of responsibility into the kids, and the other parent saying "Cake and ice cream for dinner again!", well, the responsible parent is at an automatic disadvantage.

nailed it