Author Topic: Drones over the U.S.  (Read 26026 times)

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Offline Randoobula

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #100 on: November 02, 2012, 01:42:33 AM »
Wha...?   ::speechless::

Eff that noise!  Tell the enviro-whackers to pound sand, they want to prove something, make them spend their time and effort to do it.  If the state tries to force oil companies to indict themselves, then, well, if you're that stupid to hell with you too!

Wowee Von Wowendorf!! Forgot to refill the Chill Pill prescription, I see!

Indict themselves? Legitimate environmental concerns DO exist. I applaud oil companies taking some responsibilty in identifying and mitigating risks. Even in cases where risks are minimal, I'm sure they recognize the need to play the game. I'm certainly not for wasting time and resources appeasing the whackos, but not everyone who has concern for our resources is a whacko. 

I dont agree with those who want an across the board ban on all Drones in US airspace. I lost a friend to a mid-air collision who was a spotter pilot for the herring fishery. When UAV technology evolves to allow them to safely share our airspace, I can see some valuable uses for them.

"Wowee Von Wowendorf!!"?!  LOL!

I agree about the drones ... as long as any Tom, Dick and Harry citizen has 'em as well.   ::saywhat::

Yeah, the inch/mile thingy...everything always works out for the best, people are basically good, nothing bad can happen...I'm done playing nice with asshats.  When was the last time anybody got any airtime for the benefits arising from our pipelines etc?  Yeah, I haven't seen it either, meanwhile the enviro-whacko's get all the free pub they want on network news, AnimalPlanet and everywhere else...they keep showing that BS pic of pristine mountains and critters about to be poisoned by Big Oil when the north slope is as flat as a board and critters are teaming like never before.  But I guess it is too much to ask people to stop acting like pussies and start treating enemies like enemies...that is why we lose, that is why we cannot drill our own oil...that is why we let drones fly over our cities.

Thats the way it is... Ya rarely hear the good stuff... negative sells. And those who have the least to say scream the loudest. Thing is, if we dont take each issue on its own merits and address it logically and with a level head, we just come off as screamers from the opposite extreme. Like I said before, care and concern for the environment and resources is not exclusive to environmental extremist whack-jobs. Yes, enemies should be treated as such, but I find I'm taken much more seriously and am more effective when I pick my fights. If that makes me a "pussie"... you dont know dick! :c)

Offline Randoobula

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #101 on: November 02, 2012, 01:50:21 AM »

Yes, as with Caribou mating in the shadow of the oil pipeline it would be good to have visual verification of the positive aspects of rigs in the sea.  As in the Gulf where they become natural artificial reefs encouraging the procreation of edible goodies.


My longbow and I have hunted up and down the Dalton Hwy for years and I have never seen caribou mating in the shadows of the pipeline. I HAVE seen a frisky look in their eyes from time to time tho!

People truly ARE clueless about ANWAR. Unless you have actually had your boots on the ground, you just cant fathom the vastness of the North Slope. And in relation to how big that country is, the footprint of the oil field and pipeline is miniscule. I mean a speck on a knats ass! And the critters couldnt care less. After the haul road was opened for bowhunting and then to tourism, the caribou learned to approach the road on a dead run and not stop until well clear of it. And as soon as they stop they simply go back to lickin lichen.

Managing the critters up here is a HUGE task and ADF&G does an awesome job of it. UAVs could be a valuable asset in doing population surveys. They could also be used to fly the pipeline for security and maintenance purposes.


No.


Why?

Offline Pandora

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #102 on: November 02, 2012, 01:59:29 AM »

Yes, as with Caribou mating in the shadow of the oil pipeline it would be good to have visual verification of the positive aspects of rigs in the sea.  As in the Gulf where they become natural artificial reefs encouraging the procreation of edible goodies.


My longbow and I have hunted up and down the Dalton Hwy for years and I have never seen caribou mating in the shadows of the pipeline. I HAVE seen a frisky look in their eyes from time to time tho!

People truly ARE clueless about ANWAR. Unless you have actually had your boots on the ground, you just cant fathom the vastness of the North Slope. And in relation to how big that country is, the footprint of the oil field and pipeline is miniscule. I mean a speck on a knats ass! And the critters couldnt care less. After the haul road was opened for bowhunting and then to tourism, the caribou learned to approach the road on a dead run and not stop until well clear of it. And as soon as they stop they simply go back to lickin lichen.

Managing the critters up here is a HUGE task and ADF&G does an awesome job of it. UAVs could be a valuable asset in doing population surveys. They could also be used to fly the pipeline for security and maintenance purposes.


No.


Why?

That they have useful purposes is beyond question.  Unfortunately, today, they are too easily turned to nefarious purposes.  Can you say "Google"?  "Facebook"?

I have no objection to UAVs in the abstract, but I have privacy concerns, great ones concerning government.  Like I wrote previously, should there be no objection to your average Joe having one if industry wants them; that's one thing, but the privacy and use-of-information concern is a great one to me, and I don't trust today's lawmakers or the courts to do the legal/right thing.

So, no.
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Offline Pandora

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #103 on: November 02, 2012, 02:00:41 AM »
Wha...?   ::speechless::

Eff that noise!  Tell the enviro-whackers to pound sand, they want to prove something, make them spend their time and effort to do it.  If the state tries to force oil companies to indict themselves, then, well, if you're that stupid to hell with you too!

Wowee Von Wowendorf!! Forgot to refill the Chill Pill prescription, I see!

Indict themselves? Legitimate environmental concerns DO exist. I applaud oil companies taking some responsibilty in identifying and mitigating risks. Even in cases where risks are minimal, I'm sure they recognize the need to play the game. I'm certainly not for wasting time and resources appeasing the whackos, but not everyone who has concern for our resources is a whacko. 

I dont agree with those who want an across the board ban on all Drones in US airspace. I lost a friend to a mid-air collision who was a spotter pilot for the herring fishery. When UAV technology evolves to allow them to safely share our airspace, I can see some valuable uses for them.

"Wowee Von Wowendorf!!"?!  LOL!

I agree about the drones ... as long as any Tom, Dick and Harry citizen has 'em as well.   ::saywhat::

Yeah, the inch/mile thingy...everything always works out for the best, people are basically good, nothing bad can happen...I'm done playing nice with asshats.  When was the last time anybody got any airtime for the benefits arising from our pipelines etc?  Yeah, I haven't seen it either, meanwhile the enviro-whacko's get all the free pub they want on network news, AnimalPlanet and everywhere else...they keep showing that BS pic of pristine mountains and critters about to be poisoned by Big Oil when the north slope is as flat as a board and critters are teaming like never before.  But I guess it is too much to ask people to stop acting like pussies and start treating enemies like enemies...that is why we lose, that is why we cannot drill our own oil...that is why we let drones fly over our cities.

Thats the way it is... Ya rarely hear the good stuff... negative sells. And those who have the least to say scream the loudest. Thing is, if we dont take each issue on its own merits and address it logically and with a level head, we just come off as screamers from the opposite extreme. Like I said before, care and concern for the environment and resources is not exclusive to environmental extremist whack-jobs. Yes, enemies should be treated as such, but I find I'm taken much more seriously and am more effective when I pick my fights. If that makes me a "pussie"... you dont know dick! :c)

Let me forstall the poo-flinging likely to occur by saying I doubt Libertas was referring to you as a "pussie" in that his response was to me, not you.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline Randoobula

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #104 on: November 02, 2012, 02:45:46 AM »

Yes, as with Caribou mating in the shadow of the oil pipeline it would be good to have visual verification of the positive aspects of rigs in the sea.  As in the Gulf where they become natural artificial reefs encouraging the procreation of edible goodies.


My longbow and I have hunted up and down the Dalton Hwy for years and I have never seen caribou mating in the shadows of the pipeline. I HAVE seen a frisky look in their eyes from time to time tho!

People truly ARE clueless about ANWAR. Unless you have actually had your boots on the ground, you just cant fathom the vastness of the North Slope. And in relation to how big that country is, the footprint of the oil field and pipeline is miniscule. I mean a speck on a knats ass! And the critters couldnt care less. After the haul road was opened for bowhunting and then to tourism, the caribou learned to approach the road on a dead run and not stop until well clear of it. And as soon as they stop they simply go back to lickin lichen.

Managing the critters up here is a HUGE task and ADF&G does an awesome job of it. UAVs could be a valuable asset in doing population surveys. They could also be used to fly the pipeline for security and maintenance purposes.


No.


Why?

That they have useful purposes is beyond question.  Unfortunately, today, they are too easily turned to nefarious purposes.  Can you say "Google"?  "Facebook"?

I have no objection to UAVs in the abstract, but I have privacy concerns, great ones concerning government.  Like I wrote previously, should there be no objection to your average Joe having one if industry wants them; that's one thing, but the privacy and use-of-information concern is a great one to me, and I don't trust today's lawmakers or the courts to do the legal/right thing.


So, no.

I do share your concerns. I have NO faith in government. I hadnt given the issue much thought until finding this site and thread. And I have to admit that upon further thought, the arguments Ive made for them could just as easily be used by government to sell us on more invasion of our privacy. It sucks. There are so many legitimate and valuable uses for them here in Alaska.


Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #105 on: November 02, 2012, 07:00:39 AM »

Yes, as with Caribou mating in the shadow of the oil pipeline it would be good to have visual verification of the positive aspects of rigs in the sea.  As in the Gulf where they become natural artificial reefs encouraging the procreation of edible goodies.


My longbow and I have hunted up and down the Dalton Hwy for years and I have never seen caribou mating in the shadows of the pipeline. I HAVE seen a frisky look in their eyes from time to time tho!

People truly ARE clueless about ANWAR. Unless you have actually had your boots on the ground, you just cant fathom the vastness of the North Slope. And in relation to how big that country is, the footprint of the oil field and pipeline is miniscule. I mean a speck on a knats ass! And the critters couldnt care less. After the haul road was opened for bowhunting and then to tourism, the caribou learned to approach the road on a dead run and not stop until well clear of it. And as soon as they stop they simply go back to lickin lichen.

Managing the critters up here is a HUGE task and ADF&G does an awesome job of it. UAVs could be a valuable asset in doing population surveys. They could also be used to fly the pipeline for security and maintenance purposes.


No.


Why?

That they have useful purposes is beyond question.  Unfortunately, today, they are too easily turned to nefarious purposes.  Can you say "Google"?  "Facebook"?

I have no objection to UAVs in the abstract, but I have privacy concerns, great ones concerning government.  Like I wrote previously, should there be no objection to your average Joe having one if industry wants them; that's one thing, but the privacy and use-of-information concern is a great one to me, and I don't trust today's lawmakers or the courts to do the legal/right thing.


So, no.

I do share your concerns. I have NO faith in government. I hadnt given the issue much thought until finding this site and thread. And I have to admit that upon further thought, the arguments Ive made for them could just as easily be used by government to sell us on more invasion of our privacy. It sucks. There are so many legitimate and valuable uses for them here in Alaska.



I think drones would be a dandy way to take animal population surveys.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #106 on: November 02, 2012, 07:34:02 AM »
Wha...?   ::speechless::

Eff that noise!  Tell the enviro-whackers to pound sand, they want to prove something, make them spend their time and effort to do it.  If the state tries to force oil companies to indict themselves, then, well, if you're that stupid to hell with you too!

Wowee Von Wowendorf!! Forgot to refill the Chill Pill prescription, I see!

Indict themselves? Legitimate environmental concerns DO exist. I applaud oil companies taking some responsibilty in identifying and mitigating risks. Even in cases where risks are minimal, I'm sure they recognize the need to play the game. I'm certainly not for wasting time and resources appeasing the whackos, but not everyone who has concern for our resources is a whacko. 

I dont agree with those who want an across the board ban on all Drones in US airspace. I lost a friend to a mid-air collision who was a spotter pilot for the herring fishery. When UAV technology evolves to allow them to safely share our airspace, I can see some valuable uses for them.

"Wowee Von Wowendorf!!"?!  LOL!

I agree about the drones ... as long as any Tom, Dick and Harry citizen has 'em as well.   ::saywhat::

Yeah, the inch/mile thingy...everything always works out for the best, people are basically good, nothing bad can happen...I'm done playing nice with asshats.  When was the last time anybody got any airtime for the benefits arising from our pipelines etc?  Yeah, I haven't seen it either, meanwhile the enviro-whacko's get all the free pub they want on network news, AnimalPlanet and everywhere else...they keep showing that BS pic of pristine mountains and critters about to be poisoned by Big Oil when the north slope is as flat as a board and critters are teaming like never before.  But I guess it is too much to ask people to stop acting like pussies and start treating enemies like enemies...that is why we lose, that is why we cannot drill our own oil...that is why we let drones fly over our cities.

Thats the way it is... Ya rarely hear the good stuff... negative sells. And those who have the least to say scream the loudest. Thing is, if we dont take each issue on its own merits and address it logically and with a level head, we just come off as screamers from the opposite extreme. Like I said before, care and concern for the environment and resources is not exclusive to environmental extremist whack-jobs. Yes, enemies should be treated as such, but I find I'm taken much more seriously and am more effective when I pick my fights. If that makes me a "pussie"... you dont know dick! :c)

Let me forstall the poo-flinging likely to occur by saying I doubt Libertas was referring to you as a "pussie" in that his response was to me, not you.

Heh, I'm not calling you that either!  It was more directed at those who cave into the left and play the game on their terms.  The opposite of being an extremist on one side is being an extremist on the other, yes?  To assume being a "moderate" (for lack of a better term) on enviro issues is the optimal point to be at...as with anything regarding politics, the middle is where you get killed, the middle is where you see "compromise" whereby only the left wins via incrementalism ever their direction.  That is my only point, that and being an extremist on the other side (which I relish) is not a bad thing...just because I loath militant enviros doesn't mean my position means I am all for polluting the planet into extinction, that pooh-throwing is the tactic of the enemy and I reject it thouroughly. 

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" - Barry Goldwater
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charlesoakwood

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #107 on: November 02, 2012, 10:15:08 AM »

Scalia and the Supremes should revisit the privacy issue in light of the great proximity of persons and technological advances.  Is our home restricted to the structure we sleep in or is it the whole of our property?

Offline Libertas

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #108 on: November 02, 2012, 11:13:14 AM »
We have property rights?  When did that happen?   ::stirpot::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

charlesoakwood

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #109 on: November 02, 2012, 11:34:19 AM »
Nostalgia.

Offline Pandora

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #110 on: November 02, 2012, 11:54:22 AM »

Scalia and the Supremes should revisit the privacy issue in light of the great proximity of persons and technological advances.  Is our home restricted to the structure we sleep in or is it the whole of our property?


Look here:

"CNET has learned that U.S. District Judge William Griesbach ruled that it was reasonable for Drug Enforcement Administration agents to enter rural property without permission -- and without a warrant -- to install multiple "covert digital surveillance cameras" in hopes of uncovering evidence that 30 to 40 marijuana plants were being grown.

 "Placing a video camera in a location that allows law enforcement to record activities outside of a home and beyond protected curtilage does not violate the Fourth Amendment," Justice Department prosecutors James Santelle and William Lipscomb told Callahan.

As digital sensors become cheaper and wireless connections become more powerful, the Justice Department's argument would allow police to install cameras on private property without court oversight -- subject only to budgetary limits and political pressure."

*Ahem*.  According to  http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/curtilage

"Curtilage includes the area immediately surrounding a dwelling, and it counts as part of the home for many legal purposes, including searches and many self-defense laws. When considering whether something is in a dwelling's curtilage, courts consider four factors:

    The proximity of the thing to the dwelling;
    Whether the thing is within an enclosure surrounding the home;
    Wha the thing is used for.
    What steps, if any, the resident took to protect the thing from observation/ access by people passing by.

The Supreme Court suggested these factors in the context of determining whether or not a barn was part of a house's curtilage. See United States v. Dunn (1987), 480 U.S. 294.

In the context of criminal procedure, courts generally call any part of the property surrounding a dwelling that is not part of the curtilage an 'open field.' "

To recap:  Your house and anything else within a close-by surrounding "enclosure" on your twenty acres is protected under the Fourth; your barn, two acres away, and its open area are not.

Property lines be damned.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #111 on: November 02, 2012, 11:57:40 AM »
I hates it when I'm right.  Curtilage is easement on steroids, HGH and amphetamines...    ::)

What could possibly go wrong?

 ::bashing::
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Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #112 on: November 02, 2012, 06:13:21 PM »
Once upon a time I lived along a state highway. And specifically a mile plus straight~as~an~arrow stretch of highway that transverses a residential community between two largish suburban cities. Naturally it was a irresistible temptation for drag-racers and garden-variety speeders.

It also served as an equally irresistible temptation to the state patrol for quota-duty.

Now generally I didn't GAS whether or not the cops hung out because we did have a couple of cars get messed up (mostly by the drink drivers however), but I didn't like them using my van as camouflage to their activities. And the reason was simple - I didn't want anyone taking out their resentment at getting a ticket on my stuff.

So, on one particular occasion when I noticed the cops took to hiding out behind my van to fish for speeders I went up to the highway, got in my van, and moved it. Pretty soon the cops moved as well, again taking up position behind my van. So I got in the van and moved it up in front of them, backing up right in front of their front bumper. I got out, locked up, and started to walk off.

The cop lit up his flashers and hit his siren, "pulling me over".  :o

I walked back up to the street and confronted the cop, who wanted to berate me for blocking his vehicle. I told him to find someone else to hide behind if he wanted to do his speed trap. He got pissed and tried to lecture me. I cut him off and invited him to ticket me.....that is, if he thought he could find an ordnance that I had broken. I also told him that I had all day to play and would move my van every time he did.

He steamed a bit and drove off (squealing his tires for effect). I gave him the finger then next time I saw him. It's nice when you can have a clear understanding of each other   ;D

I guess the reason for my tale was that the drones reminded me that even if it's perfectly legal, I don't have to like it - or accept it. I may (or may not) get a "drone-killer" of my own and go hunting should I ever see one over my house.


Offline AlanS

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #113 on: November 02, 2012, 07:19:03 PM »
To recap:  Your house and anything else within a close-by surrounding "enclosure" on your twenty acres is protected under the Fourth; your barn, two acres away, and its open area are not.

Property lines be damned.

Once again, I don't have the warm and fuzzy feeling. Nor the leg tingling.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #114 on: November 05, 2012, 06:42:59 AM »
Heh, that is a dang good narrative there 'Soup!  But, right is right, they ain't got to like it, but they dang well will respect it!   ::thumbsup::

Alan - "Once again, I don't have the warm and fuzzy feeling. Nor the leg tingling."  Heh, all I wanna know is, how's the trigger finger feelin'?   ;D
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charlesoakwood

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #115 on: November 19, 2012, 08:58:24 PM »

Another one (#4) bites the dust.

Flying Camera From Animal Rights Group Shot Down at Pigeon Shoot

...
The drone, nicknamed “Angel,” was recording a live pigeon shoot on Sunday around 3 p.m. when investigators say it was suddenly struck by gunfire. ...
SHARK claimed “a single sharp rifle crack rang out,”... The gunshot caused around $4,000 in damage to the camera, according to SHARK.

State Police are investigating the incident. SHARK claims this is the fourth time the drone has been shot at while trying to spy on what they claim are inhumane pigeon shoots.


Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #116 on: November 19, 2012, 09:08:16 PM »

Another one (#4) bites the dust.

Flying Camera From Animal Rights Group Shot Down at Pigeon Shoot

...
The drone, nicknamed “Angel,” was recording a live pigeon shoot on Sunday around 3 p.m. when investigators say it was suddenly struck by gunfire. ...
SHARK claimed “a single sharp rifle crack rang out,”... The gunshot caused around $4,000 in damage to the camera, according to SHARK.

State Police are investigating the incident. SHARK claims this is the fourth time the drone has been shot at while trying to spy on what they claim are inhumane pigeon shoots.



I don't know if it is the same club but I saw something like this on u-toob earlier this year. In that case several shooters took part in the downing of the drone. As I recall the limp-wrists called the cops in that case also and the cops came and essentially said tough-luck - you're invading their airspace.

All I can say in this case is - don't get caught.

charlesoakwood

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #117 on: December 01, 2012, 06:56:30 PM »
Skynet continued:


With a wingspan of 62-feet (18.9m), the subsonic drone will be the first tailless aircraft ever to land on a carrier.

Autonomous US stealth drone completes 1st test launch (VIDEO, PHOTOS)


Offline Libertas

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Re: Drones over the U.S.
« Reply #118 on: December 02, 2012, 04:21:25 PM »
Crap, SkyNet is getting more powerful!   ::facepalm::

This thing will definitely be harder to shoot down.

And carriers with pilot-less aircraft?   ::falldownshocked::

Where the heck is the fun in that?

 ::mooning::
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Does this mean they can send drones after ANY American any time they please?
« Reply #119 on: February 05, 2013, 12:09:28 AM »
http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/04/16843014-exclusive-justice-department-memo-reveals-legal-case-for-drone-strikes-on-americans?lite

EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

A confidential Justice Department memo concludes that the U.S. government can order the killing of American citizens

>The phrase that scares me most is this one: "even if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the U.S."
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