Topic: 27 dead, including 18 children, at Newtown, CT, elementary school

[Glock32]

Well, here's the plan "tiredofbs" endorses:

"I read a great article today about weapons’ sales.

Among other things, it advocated taxing the sh** out of buying weapons that are not used for hunting or other legitimate uses (yes, I believe there are legitimate reasons to own guns). The article made the analogy to smoking, which made sense to me. Don’t ban the harmful substance, but make people pay a lot if they choose to partake. For sure, tobacco use has decreased with this approach, and perhaps it could work with arms purchases as well."

They. are. so. pushing it.  And they are so very, very stupid.  You'd have to wonder if they can cipher at all; a Black Market in cigarettes would be nothing compared to guns and ammo.

Ahh, yes, the old "hunting or other legitimate uses" fallacy. The overriding purpose of the 2nd Amendment was to guarantee that citizens have access to arms suitable for use against the state, should it prove necessary.

I simply do not want to coexist with these people. Since the feeling is almost certainly mutual, we could avoid a lot of future difficulty by splitting The Empire.

[Weisshaupt]

Ahh, yes, the old "hunting or other legitimate uses" fallacy. The overriding purpose of the 2nd Amendment was to guarantee that citizens have access to arms suitable for use against the state, should it prove necessary.

I simply do not want to coexist with these people. Since the feeling is almost certainly mutual, we could avoid a lot of future difficulty by splitting The Empire.

We have the weapons so we can defend our rights against those who would take them- be it the state or this jerk. Defending our rights is a legitimate use - including our right to have the tools to make that defense possible.

They will never accept a split. You must be one with the herd or killed. Every totalitarian movement has been supported by the left for this reason. They can't coexist with anyone that asserts the individual does not exist for the good of the collective.

 

[Libertas]

  H/T Bonz at the Grouchies:

 

[Libertas]

Ahh, yes, the old "hunting or other legitimate uses" fallacy. The overriding purpose of the 2nd Amendment was to guarantee that citizens have access to arms suitable for use against the state, should it prove necessary.

I simply do not want to coexist with these people. Since the feeling is almost certainly mutual, we could avoid a lot of future difficulty by splitting The Empire.

We have the weapons so we can defend our rights against those who would take them- be it the state or this jerk. Defending our rights is a legitimate use - including our right to have the tools to make that defense possible.

They will never accept a split. You must be one with the herd or killed. Every totalitarian movement has been supported by the left for this reason. They can't coexist with anyone that asserts the individual does not exist for the good of the collective.

 

I hate that word collective, burn that crap to the ground!

[Glock32]

Couple of examples where armed citizens put an early end to shooting sprees:  

http://www.volokh.com/2012/12/14/do-civilians-armed-with-guns-ever-capture-kill-or-otherwise-stop-mass-shooters/

Regardless of whether it's an armed citizen or the police, the common denominator is that it's the confrontation with an armed responder that makes the perpetrators commit suicide. They go into it knowing they are going to die, but only when they are finally confronted by an armed person. Prior to that, as long as they have defenseless victims at hand they are going to keep killing.

This is a rehash of the post-9/11 debate about whether or not airline pilots should be armed. It seemed self-evident to me then and now that pilots should be armed. And indeed many of them are, now. Have any of the liberals' dire warnings come to pass? Has there been a rash of accidental discharges from bored pilots twirling pistols cowboy-style? I am aware of only one incident where a pilot improperly stowed the pistol and had a negligent discharge while parked on the tarmac.

Likewise in Israel, a country more familiar than any other with the targeting of massed civilians by suicidal lunatics. Teachers and staff at schools there are armed, and school field trips typically include parent chaperones who are also armed. What is the harm in having teachers or administrators, who already have a CCW and carry it everywhere else, in doing so on campus? Read the Volokh link above. An assistant principal in Mississippi ended a school shooting by retrieving a pistol from his car and confronting the shooter.

[Pandora]

The problem with them, Glock, is that reasoning, applied logic, examples, common sense, negotiating -- none of it works.  We've tried it all and they just refuse delivery of the information.

What I have found stops them dead in their tracks, well, at least on one track at a time, is this:

"We are NOT negotiating our right to keep and bear any further; it stops right here.  The answer is NO".

"THE ANSWER IS NO.  Your move."

And I'm beginning to believe it's the only response we have, or need, to all the rest.  We tell them, the legislators, the pundits, the mouthpieces, the newsies, "NO.  Your move".

[Alphabet Soup]

I must confess to having fun with the "good cop/bad cop" games with those witless fools.

[Sectionhand]

http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr183/dyno-byte/IsraeliTeachersArmed.jpg#Israeli%20teachers%20are%20armed   



http://teejaw.com/2011/07/23/murder-in-norway/

Nice carbine but if you look at how it's angled toward her butt , looks like there's no clip in it . That's a big help .

[Sectionhand]

Here we go:

Like Clockwork… Democrats Promise to Ban Assault Weapons after Sandy Hook Shootings

Well , you know how Democrat "promises" work out .

[Sectionhand]

I want to see somebody with brains and a set to promise to lift bans on people from defending themselves and a removal of those retarded "This building bans guns" signs and the citizen-disarming laws that back all that crap up!  All those signs and laws say to bad people is "Come on in, we're intentionally helpless and ripe to be plucked"!

I have a feeling a lot of people are going to say screw the concealed carry laws and do it anyway , especially if they find themselves going into a relatively unsafe environment . I know that I would ... and have .

[Libertas]

I want to see somebody with brains and a set to promise to lift bans on people from defending themselves and a removal of those retarded "This building bans guns" signs and the citizen-disarming laws that back all that crap up!  All those signs and laws say to bad people is "Come on in, we're intentionally helpless and ripe to be plucked"!

I have a feeling a lot of people are going to say screw the concealed carry laws and do it anyway , especially if they find themselves going into a relatively unsafe environment . I know that I would ... and have .

Got that right!

[Libertas]

I say the right response to these anti-constitutionalist gun-confiscating Nazi pricks is to taunt the crap out of them!  Demonize them and their evil which causes more deaths than otherwise would occur in a free soceity if they would just back the fvck off!

Here's some good data, check out Fig.121 about a quarter the way down the page -



http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

These leftist asshats should be more concerned about banning vehicles than guns, oops, they want to get rid of them too, but for bogus global warming and pollution reasons, not real reasons like THEY KILL PEOPLE!  Oh, and the Mr.Yuck campaign, must be failing, look at all the poisonings!  And clutziness, who knew clutzes ranked third in fatalities, WE MUST BAN CLUMSINESS!  Oh, and not to be dismissive of the loss of life of six and seven year old children, at least the all-compassionate State allowed them to live that long, while over the decades we have seen tens of millions of babies tossed into the trash!  Talk to me about COMPASSION and SAFETY fothermuckers?!

And asshats should remember one thing...WE outnumber THEM!



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-16/guest-post-gun-control-no-drone-control

[trapeze]

From the ACLU website where they proudly proclaim:

The ACLU's most important Supreme Court case involving the rights of people with mental illness was filed on behalf of Kenneth Donaldson, who had been involuntarily confined in a Florida State Hospital for 15 years. He was not dangerous and had received no medical treatment. In a landmark decision for mental health law in 1975, a unanimous Supreme Court ruled that states cannot confine a non-dangerous individual who can survive on his own, or with help from family and friends.

Sounds good until you realize that "non-dangerous" must be litigated every single time so the default action is to let everyone go.

Which they did in 1980. A lot of mental institutions marched their unclaimed "non-violent" patients down to the local Greyhound bus terminal, picked a destination at random and away they went on a fantastic journey.

Coincidentally, this is the time that the "homeless" problem turned up.

Post 1980 SCOTUS decision it is now extremely difficult to involuntarily institutionalize anyone. The threshold that seems to be accepted by the state is commission of a violent act. This "closing of the barn door after the horse is out" mentality has resulted in countless news videos of friends and neighbors of violent nut jobs saying that they always knew there was something wrong with the shooter and not understanding why he hadn't been locked up a long time ago.

So, yeah, blame the guns. Only the ACLU (and not a few Democrat politicians) would be proud of a decision that turns thousands of mentally ill people loose on society. Best case is that these derelicts annoy people by standing around soliciting for drug money. Worst case is these people commit violent acts and kill lots of innocent people for no apparent reason. In between those extremes you have a lot of "homeless" people who die outdoors in the elements or who are raped, murdered or otherwise victimized by evil people.

[LadyVirginia]

You know it's never well-adjusted, tax-paying, employed people doing these killings.  Usually they pretty quickly identified as "nuts".  So perhaps we should just ban nuts.  And let the well-adjusted, tax-paying, employed people keep their guns they've responsibly acquired.


And why hasn't the media talked about how these are mostly white, loner men?  And how has our current culture emasculated men.  And how our PC-culture has left mentally ill people to wander unhelped. 

I think that many of the garden variety left (not the power elite ones--more like my neighbors) are just afraid of guns.  And rather than confront their fears they think if they just get everyone to give up guns and hug it out they won't have to deal with security as a mature adult.  They don't want to have to "deal with it" and be responsible--to make a (life or death) decision.  They just want to make it all go away.

[Alphabet Soup]

LV - I made that exact assertion elsewhere and was met with contempt and immediate dismissiveness.

Since the proximate cause is mental illness (in my estimation) and firearms are only the methodology, why not look to the root? The reason is the same as the reason for so much of America's dysfunctionality - personal responsibility and the Santa Claws syndrome. Whatever our problems, failures, or flaws, we expect someone else to pay for it.

It is looking like Lanza had serious mental health issues. Issues that, for whatever reasons, the mother couldn't or wouldn't address. She paid the ultimate price for her neglect. And she consigned those dear children, along with their misguided chaperons to that same fate. I have read reports that school officials including the principal who allowed Lanza access were aware of his problems.

Great Googly Moogly people - we pay these folks to make these decisions! When (one) creates a "gun-free zone" the people in charge of the facilities within those zones become  primarily responsible for the safety of everyone within the zone. I don't GAS if they like it or not but if I am not allowed to carry a weapon and defend myself the principal becomes responsible for protecting me and mine. The principal failed. Miserably. Devastatingly.

In the final analysis, when decisions need to be made I am supremely confident that the left will make the wrong ones. That is why I will no longer (and haven't for a very long time) allow myself to be herded by the left. I'm ruefully thankful that I no longer have to subject my child to the fascists. And I'm profoundly concerned for the fate of millions of vulnerable children who remain at the mercy of the idiotic left.

[ToddF]

Am I the only one with an agitated spouse waiting for that Survivor finale...having to sit through a stuttering clusterfluke "Wellstone" the memorial?

We can’t tolerate this anymore. These tragedies must end. And to end them, we must change. We will be told that the causes of such violence are complex, and that is true. No single law - no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world, or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society.

But that can’t be an excuse for inaction.

I have a feeling SCoaMF isn't advocating to start institutionalizing the mentally ill again, nor is he calling for armed guards at school entrances.

In the coming weeks, I will use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow citizens - from law enforcement to mental health professionals to parents and educators - in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this.

Never let a crisis go to waste.

[Libertas]

Am I the only one with an agitated spouse waiting for that Survivor finale...having to sit through a stuttering clusterfluke "Wellstone" the memorial?

We can’t tolerate this anymore. These tragedies must end. And to end them, we must change. We will be told that the causes of such violence are complex, and that is true. No single law - no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world, or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society.

But that can’t be an excuse for inaction.

I have a feeling SCoaMF isn't advocating to start institutionalizing the mentally ill again, nor is he calling for armed guards at school entrances.

In the coming weeks, I will use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow citizens - from law enforcement to mental health professionals to parents and educators - in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this.

Never let a crisis go to waste.

Yeah, they preempt everything so the SCoaMF can run his mouth off....I presume I was not alone twhen hearing that asshats clip on the radio this morning that a big BUT was coming...

The progressives in government, the MFM and schools have this blood (and thousands and millions more) on their hands, when people are interested in fully disarming the State and hold them to account, fine, I'll tune in then, otherwise the PTBs are all talking out their asses, and I have no time for that!

[LadyVirginia]

...and the head-in-the-sand mode continues



and probably enabled by an executive order by BO soon....................................

[Libertas]

More asshats -

"We need to get guns and bullets and automatic weapons off the streets."

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matt-hadro/2012/12/17/cnns-lemon-goes-anti-gun-tirade-calls-assault-weapons-ban#ixzz2FKciLoJ2

Hey dipsh*t, if there are automatic weapons on the streets, that's the police and criminals, please feel free to disarm them both, dickhead!

And lot's of guns and bullets on the streets in banger hands, your laws against citiziens have only killed more citizens, ignorant tool!

And the expected BS out of the vile mind of Ed "Nazi-f**ktard" Schultz -

“Why should anyone own an assault rifle ?” and followed it up by saying “it's the confiscation of these types of weapons that counts and will have an impact.”

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/dan-gainor/2012/12/16/msnbc-s-ed-schultz-talks-gun-confiscation#ixzz2FKdZ9BVo

“The NRA needs to state the case why assault weapons are needed by anyone,” he claimed. And after that, he told one poster that “a Glock pistol qualifies as an assault weapon.”

The former is BS you Nazi-f**ktard, we need it to protect ourselves from you, Obama, and the rest of the Nazi-f**ks in government!  Our Founders knew you asswipes would eventually come along, so they are to rid ourselves of you anti-constitutional/anti-American assholes!

As to the latter, you are beyond a dunce.  But those too are to protect ourselves from YOU!  

PS - NRA, NAGR, GOA etc all outght to march on the National Capitol at the same time and demand progressives allow law-abiding citizens to protect themselves from people the government doesn't give a rats ass about protecting!

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/progressives-plan-march-on-nra-in-dc-monday

[Glock32]

By most estimates there are 80-100 million gun owners in this country. So on any given day, that's 100 million people who hurt nobody. I consider that a stark testament to the decency and responsibility of gun owners, rather than a supposed "awash with guns" Old West mentality we are accused of having.

I think one of the reasons there is such consternation on the pro-2nd side is that we all know, at some level, that things like this fall under the "sh*t Happens" category and nobody wants to be the one to make that uncomfortable assertion because then you're suddenly the monster. I don't mean that to sound callous, but if you objectively look at the statistics, there is no great overriding crisis or pandemic. I would venture to say that on a daily basis there are more children killed by domestic violence or other criminal acts.

This is going to be a tough one to hold the line on. It punched all the right emotional buttons for our unthinking population, and I am afraid no amount of reasoned analysis or presentation of facts will be able to penetrate through the "but we have to Do Something™" shields.